A swollen belly, headaches and gut problems is all I ever got from bread until I discovered ‘Bird Bread’ a dense, dark, sourdough sprinkled with pumpkin and sunflower seeds. Curious as to why I could tolerate Bird Bread, I interviewed baker, Estaban Eliza who founded (along with his wife, Katie) Roger That Bakery located at 43 Lower Main Street in Callicoon.

First of all, where does the name come from?

From Katie’s late uncle Roger to pay homage to his creative spirit as poet and painter. It’s also a phrase that conjures an image of a dialogue between people. We’re not just telling people who we are, we’re affirming a connection and conversation with them.

What’s Katie’s involvement?

Katie manages the front of house for our retail shop – working the counter, decorating the space, helping to design our graphics. She also bakes many of our sweets [like] cookies, truffles, macarons, pies and scones.

When and why did you start baking?

Katie has been baking for many years, but I only started a little over four years ago [when] at home with nothing to do during the pandemic and sourdough was becoming popular. I was fascinated by the idea of being able to make cheap & tasty bread at home and as I got more into it, the science, health and artistry aspect of it all got me hooked. 

Where are the recipes from?

Our final recipes are all our own, aside from the plain flan which is my dad’s recipe. When you’re working with fresh-milled, whole grain or high extraction flour as we are, you often have to make your own recipes because of how different these flours behave compared to each-other and also to white flour. 

Tell us about your special ingredients.

For breads, one of our most special ingredients is of course our sourdough cultures. Inside of a sourdough culture are two primary microorganisms — yeast and lactic acid bacteria [that] work together to give baked goods their rise, sour flavor, preservation, and digestibility. I use two different cultures, both made from organic NY grains, and one using 100 percent whole grain flour I mill in-house. Fresh ingredients are also key to what we do. We have a small stone-mill to make whole-grain flour we plan on using that day. We also crack our own rye berries and grind many whole spices. Most of our flour that requires sifting we source from a mill in NY and that flour is milled shortly before we receive it.

The vast majority of our ingredients are also certified organic. Nearly all of our breads are made exclusively with organic ingredients (save for one-off inclusion breads I may make where sourcing organic is impossible or cost-prohibitive), and many of our sweets use nearly all organic ingredients as well.

Why can someone like me who has gluten issues, eat your Bird Bread without any problem?

I want to start by saying none of the following are health claims and that none of our breads are safe for someone with celiac disease. Everyone’s nutritional needs are unique to them and different foods react differently for each individual. 

That being said, someone with non-celiac gluten sensitivity may be okay with our Bird Bread for several reasons. The first reason is the inclusion of sourdough culture. The enzymes in sourdough work to break down gluten so your digestion system isn’t so taxed processing it, and Bird Bread is seeded with roughly 50% mature sourdough which is very high for a bread. The second, is the gluten makeup of rye vs wheat. This bread is made with 100% rye flour, down to the sourdough culture, and rye has not only less gluten proteins than wheat but also a different composition. Thirdly, all of the rye flour is unrefined whole-grain and stone-milled in-house the day we mix our dough. Flour loses its nutrition over time so this flour has its maximum nutritional composition possible compared to store-bought flour. Combine all of this with a large inclusion of seeds and the use of certificated organic ingredients you have a lot of things working in your favor.

What are your plans for the future at Roger that Bakery?

One of our long-term goals I’m super proud of accomplishing recently is becoming a SNAP retailer. Katie and I grew up low-income in Wayne County and our families relied on this program to provide food for us, so we know first-hand the issues with food accessibility in the area. Being able to increase accessibility of locally-baked breads made with local & organic ingredients to low-income families is really amazing. Growing accessibility to our products is a continuous goal, we’re in the process of partnering with local food pantries to be able to allow customers to purchase bread donations directly through us. I also have many breads in the queue I’m dying to fit into our schedule somehow. We’d love to be able to scale up our production more, get proper bread ovens, hire employees, and expand our coffee & pastry menu. We’re excited about the future!

RAMONA JAN is the Founder and Director of Yarnslingers, a storytelling group that tells tales both fantastic and true. She is also the roving historian for Callicoon, NY and is often seen giving tours around town. You can email her at callicoonwalkingtours@gmail.com.